tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post7281584768460453995..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Sleep Schedules and Equal ConsiderationRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-91903307791796755042010-02-21T14:59:56.648-05:002010-02-21T14:59:56.648-05:00Actually, your response sounds like you mean to be...Actually, your response sounds like you mean to be just be making a general point. If your general point is that people are differentially considerate towards early and late risers, then I agree.<br /><br />If your point is that this differential consideration is what explains the scheduling of construction, then I think the evidence severely underdetermines that conclusion, given the existence of alternative explanations.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911116321628968901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-21973465762179612252010-02-21T14:57:06.911-05:002010-02-21T14:57:06.911-05:00"I'm sure you can. I'm less sure how ..."I'm sure you can. I'm less sure how this is relevant."<br /><br />I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious. I took your post to be presuming that concern for sleep schedules is something that university administrators take into account in scheduling construction. I'm suggesting that if your only evidence is the timing, then you may be too hasty in jumping to conclusions.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911116321628968901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-48378035333768516512010-02-21T14:20:38.955-05:002010-02-21T14:20:38.955-05:00"I can think of reasons for preferring to do ..."<i>I can think of reasons for preferring to do construction at 8 AM to 11 PM that have nothing to do with concerns about the potential for disturbing people's sleep.</i>"<br /><br />I'm sure you can. I'm less sure how this is relevant. The point is that concern for those who are trying to sleep is <i>something</i> that it's generally recognized should be taken into account by considerate people. (It's obviously not the <i>only</i> thing that's ever relevant.) And yet -- as TruePath points out -- it's very common for people to fail to extend this basic consideration to late risers, <i>even when they could be easily accommodated</i>. (Again, I'm not suggesting that sleep preferences could or should <i>always</i> be accommodated, no matter the external circumstances.)Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-73070407259299975092010-02-21T14:01:24.062-05:002010-02-21T14:01:24.062-05:00I can think of reasons for preferring to do constr...I can think of reasons for preferring to do construction at 8 AM to 11 PM that have nothing to do with concerns about the potential for disturbing people's sleep. <br /><br />It's dark outside at 11 PM, and it's usually light outside at 8 AM--I'd think it would be a lot harder to do construction at night, no?Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911116321628968901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-45990629681305788222010-02-13T05:13:14.751-05:002010-02-13T05:13:14.751-05:00In this case it's definitely possible that the...In this case it's definitely possible that there were no real other alternatives that didn't waste significant resources (these employees likely have a 7-3 workday or something) and even if not it was likely an oversight.<br /><br />What I find far more troubling is that often people explicitly refuse to offer accommodations for late risers in a context that takes account of other similar preferences. <br /><br />For instance in the math department at berkeley one filled out TA (GSI) preference forms on which you indicated when you would be taking classes and any special circumstances like childcare or a job that would make it difficult for you to teach at a given time. However, the form explicitly indicated that even having a long travel time to campus so you would have to rise exceptionally early was not an acceptable reason.<br /><br />So things people do for their own pleasure like taking ancient greek or reproducing are taken into account but if what matters to you is having a late schedule that doesn't even deserve consideration. And don't even let me get started on the implicit discrimination in granting special monetary and time consideration for child-care but not for the equally important lifestyle issue of a long distance relationship.TruePathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09101368178633477827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-48987079818552040842010-02-10T20:02:24.443-05:002010-02-10T20:02:24.443-05:00I sometimes have this problem as I am a musician a...I sometimes have this problem as I am a musician and often work late, so have a range of rather dull audio books on an old MP3 player. If I get woken up I just listen to something like Gibbons Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire. Have never made it belong the first 5 minutes without dropping off again. This also masks other sounds. It needs a bit of experimentation to get the volume just right and a comfortable set of earbuds, but it really works.<br />Going out into the desert or somewhere far from people makes you realise how noisy modern city living really is, not just in the morning. Some people almost feel uncomfortable with silence, do they need noise to reassure themselves that they are not alone? <br />I like having a "quiet space break" to let my ears and brain get tuned in to noises like wind and leaves rustling.CarolAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00785216962786819074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-85065820518331930392010-02-10T12:09:27.267-05:002010-02-10T12:09:27.267-05:00Strikes me this is an example of a fairly insidiou...Strikes me this is an example of a fairly insidious problem: that of privileging norms over people. I see it all the time. A norm becomes widely recognized as having moral force - perhaps because, in a range of circumstances, what it says you should do <i>is</i> what you ought to do - and it is then respected regardless of whether doing so disrespects people. (Those who keep disreputable sleep schedules are often victims of this kind of "normalized disrespect." So too are those who use sexist or racist language in non-assertoric contexts - like with their ironic friends (ambiguity intentional). And then there are the examples that get the most press, such as the Biblically sanctioned mistreatment of those with certain sexual preferences / orientations.)<br /><br />The problem is insidious for three reasons. (1) If a highly regarded - widely internalized - norm authorizes immorality, then there will be a disconnect between feeling guilt and doing wrong (so there will be no psychological pressure to refrain). (2) This disconnect remains even for those who (in some sense) recognize that what they're doing is cruel. (I just <i>know</i> there is a conspiracy of larks who thrill at the prospect of startling a laggard... And then sleep easy because their early morning bustle has the sanction of a reputable norm.) So privileging norms before people promotes inhumanity. (3) It promotes inhumanity, too, because, with the norm highly regarded, those who respect it (while disrespecting people) are held to be pillars of the community! Far from being sanctioned, they are praised for their sins.<br /><br />The horror! The horror!Musing Marxisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01162084194964433756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-2793546206525916652010-02-09T09:45:06.993-05:002010-02-09T09:45:06.993-05:00I think that conventions are necessary as sleep is...I think that conventions are necessary as sleep is necessary. Though, why should the conventional be to interrupt the same hours of the day? Imagine work that has to be done for a number of consecutive days and a graduate student to have interrupted sleep for months at a time. Couldn’t it be that idiosyncrasies are human and widely in existence and should be taken into consideration further not just as idiosyncrasies but as in the effect it has on any persons sleep or quiet time being interrupted always , at the same time in the same way...It seems that informing ahead of time and some change in the pattern of what is considered established conventions would serve most equally.Veronicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305046968539115868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-83727257867658932822010-02-08T18:56:17.730-05:002010-02-08T18:56:17.730-05:00Part of the ordered maintenance was in areas where...Part of the ordered maintenance was in areas where people aren't sleeping. So pareto improvements could very easily be achieved by simply switching the order. (And remember, we're talking about <i>grad students</i> here; it's hardly unusual for members of this population to not want to be woken at 7:45am.)<br /><br />So sure, I grant your point that <i>some</i> conventions are necessary. But that's no excuse to pass up <i>easy</i> (practically costless) opportunities to accommodate others. It's not as though there's any pressing reason why the university has to order the <i>residential</i> maintenance in particular to be the first order of the day.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-87685983987061542722010-02-08T18:12:23.169-05:002010-02-08T18:12:23.169-05:00The maintainance workers might like keeping a norm...The maintainance workers might like keeping a normal workday schedule so that they can be with their families in the evenings. It's not so much a moral issue as a comme il faut kind of thing. There's a generally accepted workday. It is to some extent arbitrary, but it's necessary that there be some convention in order to coordinate diverse human endeavors, little things like needing to be done with work in time to pick up kids at day care. If your sleep pattern is out of line then it seems to me that the consequences are for you to deal with. I don't think that because you're morally bad, but because people shouldn't be asked to bend their schedules to your idiosyncrasies. The difference between 11pm and 8am is perhaps conventional, but it is necessary to have some such conventions.jrshipleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991272871497674850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-88730869725739522612010-02-08T16:30:33.847-05:002010-02-08T16:30:33.847-05:00Night owls of the world unite! We have nothing to ...Night owls of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but your varying degrees of fatigue!Steven Moellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455989846225858805noreply@blogger.com