tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post111154478377289369..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Rational IrrationalityRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-23653468003010819582009-11-06T22:11:57.688-05:002009-11-06T22:11:57.688-05:00Note that pretending to be irrational is not the s...Note that <i>pretending</i> to be irrational is not the same thing as <i>actually making oneself</i> irrational. It's unsurprising that the former could be a good idea. It's more interesting that there are some situations in which even the latter would be advisable.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-53327266003004109682009-11-06T21:27:58.402-05:002009-11-06T21:27:58.402-05:00I can think of a better example from the movie &qu...I can think of a better example from the movie "Proof of Life". <br /><br />From wiki (and memory):<br />Peter, an American, has been hired to assist with building a dam in a South American country. When Peter is in the city one day, a convoy of automobiles (including his) is ambushed by guerilla rebels. Believing that Peter actually works for an oil pipeline company, rebel soldiers abduct him and lead him into the Jungle.<br /><br />When he arrives at the main jungle camp, he meets another hostage, Kessler, a missionary and former member of the French Foreign Legion, who’s lived in the camp for nineteen months. Kessler has survived this long by adopting a strategy of "insanity". He pretends to be wildly obsessed with God and Christ, and he is able to save Peter on more than one occasion by creating distractions based around this insane persona.<br /><br />For example, Peter spots a map of the surrounding area, left on a table by the guerillas. Kessler gives him an old bible to copy the map and escape route. When the guerillas start making their way back to the table, Kessler distracts them by grabbing a stick and balancing it on his fingers, he runs up to them like a little child, babbling and laughing. The guerillas stop briefly to heckle him - they enjoy picking on the "crazy old man" and this distraction gives Peter just enough time to put the map back where he found it.<br /><br />Peter and Kessler then escape with the bible (that is never inspected or even suspected by the guerillas - after all, it's just the crazy man's book).<br /><br />There is a real life example I can think of from women(mainly from developing countries that are in social turmoil)who say they avoid rape by "being crazy and disgusting" to their attackers (throwing up, and spreading their vomit all over themselves, and also urinating and defacating to end the struggle quickly). In places like Chihuahua, Mexico, rape usually ends in murder, so "rational irrationality" is very understandable (whatever works!)The Musehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04441793775796398656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-69361027213099168182009-11-06T02:06:40.293-05:002009-11-06T02:06:40.293-05:00how about the united states' foreign policy as...how about the united states' foreign policy as an example.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16080196236152410842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1111557897975883592005-03-23T01:04:00.000-05:002005-03-23T01:04:00.000-05:00MP, Parfit suggests that the robber will likely ki...MP, Parfit suggests that the robber will likely kill you all even if you open the safe, so as to leave no witnesses. But if you don't like that example, I mentioned others in the post. The game of 'chicken', for example, or the "threat-fulfillers", or a disposition towards jealous rage. (So long as you get the general idea, I don't think the details of such thought experiments matter very much.)<BR/><BR/>Tom, the point is that we're not merely <I>behaving</I> irrationally, we've actually made ourselves (temporarily) entirely incapable of reason. Think of the threat-fulfiller whose bluff is met, so he must blow himself up. He most certainly is NOT rational in doing so! But given the circumstances, he <I>was</I> rational in making himself irrational like this.<BR/><BR/>Jason - thanks. I do agree that in most circumstances prevention would be better than the extreme 'cure' discussed in this post. But I'm not sure how relevant that is -- I'm certainly not recommending that we all make ourselves irrational, or anything like that! I just find the quasi-paradoxical nature of it all rather curious.<BR/><BR/>Your other point is interesting. Is it necessarily irrational to make threats? I don't see how it is. (I do think it is often contingently irrational, insofar as the ill-will it ferments could impede your later goals, but that's beside the point.) <BR/><BR/>Consider the threat-fulfiller in the perfectly rational society (where no-one else has become threat-ignorers yet). It seems quite rational for him to threaten others, especially if he can do so secretly, so as not to dirty his reputation. It really is, in this scenario, the easiest and most reliable way for him to achieve his goals.<BR/><BR/>So I guess this just strikes me as <A HREF="http://pixnaps.blogspot.com/2005/03/what-is-morality.html#111136045247349292" REL="nofollow">another</A> instance where rationality and morality diverge.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1111550246563982882005-03-22T22:57:00.000-05:002005-03-22T22:57:00.000-05:00Can you come up with a better example? Nobody want...Can you come up with a better example? Nobody wants to risk their kids on a crazy robber who doesn't care whether they shoot your kids or not. After all, it's not like the robber loses anything by shooting your kids - especially if you have two of them, or they are willing to do it methodically one limb at a time...<BR/><BR/>Also, in your example, what's the difference between irrationality and just not responding to violence? What if you irrationally decide to open the safe for them? Why do you assume an irrational person will not give in to their demands?<BR/><BR/>I think this is just silly, now that I think about it.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>-MPAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11384742711203790401noreply@blogger.com