tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post8978534693288067688..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Right Acts and Blameworthy MotivesRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-23374480718936653832009-08-02T23:22:20.211-04:002009-08-02T23:22:20.211-04:00My question is whether we can separate an action f...My question is whether we can separate an action from its intentions. What makes an action "saving an innocent person" is either (a) the accidental result of performing an action that has only the unforeseen or incidental effect of saving the person or (b) intending to save the innocent person and taking the requisite steps to effect this result.<br /><br />An overall action can be described, therefore, in terms of the causal connections between intermediary actions and an ultimate result or in terms of a deliberate overall action plan. <br /><br />When Bob performs the actions that have the result of temporary saving the innocent's life you are calling that the "action of saving the innocent's life" but since it happens as part of a larger action of "stealing a victim for himself" the sub-action of temporarily saving the intended victim's life is no more morally praiseworthy or blameworthy than the other component actions of the overall action. <br /><br />Take this illustration: Punching and kicking are morally neutral actions unless given a context. If I do these things to save an innocent they are good, if I do them to an innocent they are bad. They only get their meaning as moral actions in conjunction with the overall actions to which they contribute.<br /><br />Since Bob's overall action is stealing a victim for himself, his punching and kicking and his temporary saving are all themselves corrupted by the presence of the desire that defines the overall action as an action of stealing a victim for himself. The fact that we can describe sub-actions like the punching, kicking, and saving in terms of actions with effects that are distinctly desirable or undesirable is irrelevant to assessing Bob's ultimate action. That requires uniting his desire with his deeds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-89100605876260708242009-08-02T14:38:52.318-04:002009-08-02T14:38:52.318-04:00Hi Richard,
Let's suppose that Bob hit the at...Hi Richard,<br /><br />Let's suppose that Bob hit the attacker over the head with a club, rendering him unconscious. And let's assume that doing anything less injurious to the attacker would have left the innocent person at risk. Finally, let's call this act 'H'. I agree that Bob is blameworthy for acting on his malicious desire and for performing H out of malice. I agree that it's not the mere possession of a bad desire, but rather its incorporation into a malicious action, that occasions this particular blame response to what he did. (I would add, though, that he is also to blame for having the malicious desire if this was something that he could have prevented by saying doing what was necessary to develop a good character.) I don't, however, think that Bob is blameworthy for having performed H. And whereas I agree that Bob had sufficient reason to perform H, I don't think that Bob had sufficient reason to have performed H out of malice. So I don't see any clear counterexample to my claim.Doug Portmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506624812156829116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-14489772062864859342009-08-02T12:14:18.200-04:002009-08-02T12:14:18.200-04:00Yeah, it's a little tricky to pin down exactly...Yeah, it's a little tricky to pin down exactly what he's blameworthy for. Here are a few thoughts:<br /><br />It can't just be the desire/motive, since he would not be blameworthy in the same way had he experienced the same motivation but refrained from acting upon it. Rather, his <i>exercise of agency</i> appears to be the <i>occasion</i> of blameworthiness.<br /><br />But this leaves open the question of <i>what aspect</i> of the occasion is regrettable, or a fitting target of guilt, etc. I would certainly agree that it makes no sense for the agent to feel guilty about <i>having protected the innocent person</i>, for example. And they needn't even feel guilty about having performed an act <i>of the type</i> that they did (violently rebuffing the assailant), since that was clearly desirable given that it was necessary to protect the innocent person. But I think they can - and should - still feel guilty about their <i>token</i> action, as it was performed from malice. <br /><br />It is this aspect -- the fact that it was performed from malice -- which makes the token act an occasion of blameworthiness. It was, after all, an occasion of distinctively agential incompetence. As luck would have it, it turned out to be the right (type of) act, but it was done for the wrong reasons, and this fact renders the agent fitting for the distinctive kind of criticism found in blame, guilt, etc.<br /><br />Do you disagree with any of this? (It's possible we've been talking past each other, if you were simply stressing that the bad motive is the <i>aspect</i> of the token action that renders it blameworthy, whereas I've been insisting that it's not the mere possession of a bad desire, but rather its incorporation into a malicious action, that <i>occasions</i> blame.)Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-90826614983363755602009-08-01T20:10:14.040-04:002009-08-01T20:10:14.040-04:00Hi Richard,
Fair enough. I'm afraid that I do...Hi Richard,<br /><br />Fair enough. I'm afraid that I don't have much of anything helpful to say at this point. I don't find it plausible to blame him for what he did, although I find it plausible to blame him for the motive with which he did it. Do you think that he should regret doing what he did? Do you think that he should feel guilty about having performed that act (or acts) that he did (assuming, of course, that he used no more force or violence than was necessary to protect the innocent person)? I can see him rightly feeling guilty for taking pleasure in hurting the assailant, but I can't see him rightly feeling guilty for having done what he did, which was, we're supposing, absolutely necessary to protect the innocent person.Doug Portmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506624812156829116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-72752885308340777112009-08-01T17:46:32.534-04:002009-08-01T17:46:32.534-04:00Hi Doug, I'm taking 'X' as an arbitrar...Hi Doug, I'm taking 'X' as an arbitrary name for the token action that Bob performed. This can be described in any number of ways, depending on which aspect of the action you want to emphasize. But descriptions aside, there's a single action there, and my claim is that Bob is blameworthy for <i>it</i> -- for <i>what he did</i>.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-72457737179039899882009-08-01T17:41:23.891-04:002009-08-01T17:41:23.891-04:00Hi Richard,
Now, I'm unclear what the objecti...Hi Richard,<br /><br />Now, I'm unclear what the objection is. I thought the objection was that, when we plug 'acting on his malicious desire' in for X, the claim that 'S is blameworthy for freely and knowledgeably X-ing only if S does not have sufficient reason to X, all things considered' comes out false. After all, you said that Bob's blameworthy for for acting on his malicious desire; you didn't say that Bob is blameworthy for defending an innocent person from a violent attacker, the thing that he has sufficient reason to do.<br /><br />I think that Bob can be blameworthy for all sorts of things: wanting to hurt someone, being motivated out of malice, acting from a malicious motive, intending to inflict pain on the violent attacker, failing to care about the welfare of the innocent person, etc. I just don't think that Bob can be blameworthy for X-ing if Bob has sufficient reason to X.Doug Portmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506624812156829116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-7327412464791207112009-08-01T12:11:37.324-04:002009-08-01T12:11:37.324-04:00Hi Doug - yeah, it looks like your new formulation...Hi Doug - yeah, it looks like your new formulation avoids my second objection. But I think there's still a related worry there, insofar as S might know all the relevant facts but just <i>not care</i> about them. Supposing Bob would have acted maliciously in any case, then despite his knowledge, there's an important sense in which it's still "just luck" rather than the competent exercise of his rational capacities that explains why his action happens to conform with what he has sufficient reason to do in this case.<br /><br />You ask: "<i>Do you think that Bob has sufficient reason to act on his malicious desire?</i>"<br /><br />I'm not sure what to make of this. In particular, I'm doubtful that there are reasons for acting-on-certain-motives as opposed to just reasons for action. So in that sense the question seems ill-formed. I do think that there's sufficient reason to act as Bob does, and this isn't altered by the fact that Bob has bad motivations. (Unlike, say, the <a href="http://www.philosophyetc.net/2008/05/aspiring-to-objectivity.html" rel="nofollow">angry squash player</a> case.) But I guess that isn't what you meant to ask.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-10034486621621739922009-08-01T08:34:02.928-04:002009-08-01T08:34:02.928-04:00Richard,
Do you think that Bob has sufficient rea...Richard,<br /><br />Do you think that Bob has sufficient reason to act on his malicious desire?<br /><br />Regarding (2), could you give a more specific example? I would like to know what 'X' stands for and why Dupe1, but not Dupe2, has sufficient reason to perform X.<br /><br />Regarding the worry about doing what one has sufficient reason due to sheer luck, I now formulate things as follow (you're working off an old version):<br /><br />"S would be blameworthy for freely and knowledgeably performing ~x only if S does not have sufficient reason to perform ~x, all things considered."<br /><br />"[T]o say that S knowledgeably performs x is just to say that S performs x knowing all the relevant facts—the relevant facts being the facts the ignorance of which could otherwise either inculpate or exculpate S for performing x."<br /><br />Would this address your worry?<br /><br />Alex,<br /><br />Yes, some formulate moral rationalism in the way that you're suggesting and others formulate it as I do. It's a term of art that gets defined in different ways by different philosophers.Doug Portmorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13506624812156829116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-56597437271760155522009-08-01T03:26:16.782-04:002009-08-01T03:26:16.782-04:00Slightly tangentially, I haven't read the Port...Slightly tangentially, I haven't read the Portmore, but I'm not sure about this:<br />"moral rationalism -- the view that it can't be morally wrong to do what you have sufficient reason to do"<br /><br />I always understood it to be the view that one always has <em>some</em>reason to do what one morally ought to do (see, e.g. Smith 1994:62). That's a much weaker claim. It's hard to say not having read the book, but it's much less clear how that might interact with 2.11. Of course, he might just say that he's using "moral rationalism" in a different way, but to the extent that the weaker claim is controversial, the stronger one will be all the more so.Alex Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836914221864280274noreply@blogger.com