tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post2113245472572853138..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Banning SmackingRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-71217313420129181222007-04-20T02:54:00.000-04:002007-04-20T02:54:00.000-04:00Parents have a number of additional obligations to...Parents have a number of additional obligations to their kids - they also need a corresponding additional tools to ensure they can achieve that - tools other people should not have.<BR/><BR/>Smacking may or may not be one of those tools of course. Similarly kids have a number of extra defenses (for example a young child could kill a person and not expect prison) and thus a corresponding extra tools might be required in exchange for those that have been removed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-7892357010816541092007-04-19T22:50:00.000-04:002007-04-19T22:50:00.000-04:00Part of the problem seems to be that there is almo...Part of the problem seems to be that there is almost zero relevant, reliable empirical data regarding smacking. What concerns me is that most smacking appears to me to be the result of frustration or anger on the parents part rather than a considered response aimed at producing self-discipline in a child.<BR/><BR/>I also agree with what ponder said about helplessness: I can think of few more psychologically distressing situations than being completely helpless, while being hit with the intention of causing pain (otherwise why do it?) by someone who is supposed to have your best interests at heart. I can't see how this is supposed to be beneficial to the parent-child relationship. To me it screams of parents who haven't done enough research on raising children. <BR/><BR/>The fact that its possible to deal with just about any disciplinary problem in ways that a) result in positive long term outcomes for the children, and b) don't involve hitting them, just seems to point to smacking being a bad idea. To anyone that disputes this, I point to the watertight philosophical argument that is TV shows like "Supernanny". :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-4103701057242381402007-04-19T06:49:00.000-04:002007-04-19T06:49:00.000-04:00Nigel - yes, it does puzzle me how some proponents...Nigel - yes, it does puzzle me how some proponents of the bill neglect the obvious (morally relevant) differences between adults and children. We generally prohibit hitting as a violation of bodily autonomy, but children cannot be fully autonomous of their parents. There are obviously all sorts of things that good parents may do to their children that they couldn't do to other adults -- send them to their room, insist that they eat their vegetables, decide who they may associate with, etc.<BR/><BR/>This is a reflection of the special nature of the parent-child relationship, not an indication that children are somehow "second-class citizens" (as I've heard some advocates suggest).Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-87055374227602719852007-04-19T06:38:00.000-04:002007-04-19T06:38:00.000-04:00Moz, I'd simply suggest that speed limits ought no...Moz, I'd simply suggest that speed limits ought <I>not</I> to be widely disregarded. (And of course we should all deny your parenthetical claim.)<BR/><BR/>Ponder - that does sound pretty awful.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-69151603944123986192007-04-19T05:54:00.000-04:002007-04-19T05:54:00.000-04:00I would appreciate your comparison with the use of...I would appreciate your comparison with the use of speed limits, which have criminal sanctions at the high end *and* are widely disregarded. I'm not sure how your position holds together in light of that plus the domestic violence problem (where it's ok to hit your partner as long as you're an all black).Mozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07450274402965786918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-20788323660932935622007-04-18T16:41:00.000-04:002007-04-18T16:41:00.000-04:00On your aside:What about the possibility that thre...On your aside:<BR/><BR/>What about the possibility that threatening physical pain is a form of psychological torture? I grew up in a country where caning children is a common practice, and the experience being forced to stand still (or, as is common in that culture, to kneel down in front of the authority figures in a position of explicit submission) while someone hits you is terrifying <I>primarily</I> because one is in a position of complete helplessness. The worst parts of corporeal punishment for me were the interminable pauses before the actual blows fell and the feeling of helplessness, not the physical pain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-45866060353697078682007-04-18T16:06:00.000-04:002007-04-18T16:06:00.000-04:00Well said. Agree 100%.I think NRT's post is an exa...Well said. Agree 100%.<BR/><BR/>I think NRT's post is an example of the way many people behave when they've lost the debate but refuse to concede.<BR/><BR/>However I do give NRT credit for being honest about wanting to criminalize even light smacking, unlike the Greens whose actions and words are still inconsistent.<BR/><BR/>I would add that, although we don't hit other adults, we do fine them or imprison them. If those options were not available (for example on a desert island) even quite severe corporal punishment might be correct.<BR/><BR/>Saying that we prohibit hitting any adults of adults, therefore we should prohibit any hitting of children, is a false analogy.Nigel Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04810873665345046994noreply@blogger.com