tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post112099403702852662..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Transphysicalism and Virtual HappinessRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-55817473884478612042007-04-18T02:09:00.000-04:002007-04-18T02:09:00.000-04:00Hey Richard,I enjoyed your essay. I have contempla...Hey Richard,<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed your essay. I have contemplated such things at length as well. Although I have not written much about this subject directly I have been working on the underlying metaphysical, scientific, mathematical and computational foundations that could eventually result in such a scenario. <BR/><BR/>In the context of the work that I do, the ultimate test of the hypothesis would be to devise an artificial universe within a quantum computer and to then teleport 'physical objects' into and out of it, including ourselves. That would breakdown our naive realist beliefs in 'physicality'.<BR/><BR/>It is already possible to teleport single particles and at this level it is all just quantum information.<BR/><BR/>Just thought I'd let you know of the existence of this work. It provides a deep metaphysical foundation for cyberspace based upon matrix algebra, discrete mathematics, information theory and system theory. From this there are working software prototypes of basic artificial universes. These are actually "general system simulators" that can simulate ANY system that can be represented using a finite amount of information - which includes all known systems. The main protoype simulates systems of particles as well as a simple calculator program, i.e. the dynamics of a game could be simulated as virtual systems but so too can general software and any system whatsoever. It essentially provides a general operating environment for systems. This could eventually replace the concept of 'software' and 'code' and 'operating systems'. In the new paradigm a computer is an interface into a virtual universe with deep metaphysical properties just like our current 'physical' universe, in which we can create, participate and interact.<BR/><BR/>There is a lot more to it than this, it also explores the metaphysics of this reality, the systemic dynamics that are driving current global crises, the nature of mind, experience and knowledge, and so on.<BR/><BR/>If you're interested have a look at <A HREF="http://www.anandavala.info/TASTMOTNOR/InformationSystemAnalysis.html" REL="nofollow">An Information System Analysis of Mind, Knowledge, 'the World' and Holistic Science</A> this is an overall discussion, all formed into a single narative.<BR/><BR/>And also check out <A HREF="http://www.anandavala.info/" REL="nofollow">the main website</A> which is a network of related ideas, that you can explore in your own way.<BR/><BR/>There are many essays about virtual reality and metaphysics... the implications are profound and far reaching !!!! <BR/><BR/>Below is a quote from the preface of the information systems analysis...<BR/><BR/>It contains some mind-blowing ideas (literally). As they flow through my mind and out my fingers they are blowing my old paradigm into tiny pieces - dissolving everything and re-casting it into a new paradigm or vision of reality. So beware if you are attached to your familiar world-view - you will find this discussion threatening. Read this only if you are willing to question fundamental beliefs and assumptions, and you seek a deep rational knowledge of your self, of the world, of the nature of the phenomena and events in the world and how to holistically, harmonious and effectively participate in reality. This is the red pill, take it and I will show you "how deep the rabbit hole goes". Or simply turn away; “take the blue pill and the story ends... you believe whatever you want to believe.” The decision is: “Do you live on in ignorance (and potentially bliss) [but for how long?] or do you lead what Aristotle called 'the examined life'...” <BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>John RinglandAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121280807534704152005-07-13T14:53:00.000-04:002005-07-13T14:53:00.000-04:00>What we require is a whole VR world, which can ho...>What we require is a whole VR world, which can hold vast populations of people simultaneously<BR/><BR/>Not sure if you really need the worlds to interact in a complex manner. At least not for many humans.<BR/><BR/>Anyway it is possible the worlds would tend to seperate out in order to allow each person maximum flexibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121259749795172612005-07-13T09:02:00.000-04:002005-07-13T09:02:00.000-04:00A further step would be disposing of our bodies co...A further step would be disposing of our bodies completely...<BR/><BR/>The reason i brought up AI earlier, is because i was saying that we are essentially AI beings. <BR/><BR/>If you grant this, and our brains are simply super computers, it would be possible to copy our computer functions and make up a type of computer programme that exactly replicas the way we think given all the external inputs, as well keeping and adapting with memory. We in a sense are able to download ourselves, and are thus able to live for possibly thousands of years. Sounds far fetched, but so what. The whole programming reactions for every type of input kind of brings free-will argument into play.<BR/>Logically possible?<BR/><BR/>XPhilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121248076359974092005-07-13T05:47:00.000-04:002005-07-13T05:47:00.000-04:00GeniusNZ, note that "total immersion VR" is not qu...GeniusNZ, note that "total immersion VR" is not quite sufficient for what I have in mind here. What we require is a whole VR <I>world</I>, which can hold vast populations of people simultaneously, and allow them to interact in all the usual ways. This would require <I>massive</I> flexibility, which I expect the first generation of t-i-VR would lack. Also, if immersion is to be permanent, issues arise about sustaining and protecting the inhabitants' physical bodies. But never mind the practical details. Even though I think it unlikely, maybe it could be possible within our lifetimes -- who knows?Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121247651234849652005-07-13T05:40:00.000-04:002005-07-13T05:40:00.000-04:00Well, that will depend on what exactly it is that ...Well, that will depend on what exactly it is that you really want. Do you want to be (physical world) president? If so, you would not enter the matrix. Alternatively, perhaps all you want is to <I>feel</I> happy and successful, in which case you might want to be deceived. <BR/><BR/>But I'm not sure why we should want to grant your supposition, as that reduces it to the standard Nozickian 'experience machine' scenario. What I think is interesting about the earlier discussed ideas is that it goes beyond that standard scenario. It points out that genuine fulfilment of (even external) desires is possible within a virtual world. If I want X-in-the-matrix, this is an external desire that can be satisfied by the matrix world.<BR/><BR/>Why think that being president of the cyber-world would be much less fulfilling than being president of the physical world? What relevant difference does the underlying metaphysics make?<BR/><BR/>Note that I am <I>not</I> envisaging a "pre-programmed" world, where everyone has set roles. One has to work for their cyber-success, just as they do their physical success. There would just be more possibilities, fewer constraints, etc.<BR/><BR/>We want to retain genuine personal responsibility for our success. I would not want to live in a <I>pre-programmed</I> matrix. I value my autonomy too much. But the sort of open-ended cyberworld I have in mind would have no such problem.Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121224262061248562005-07-12T23:11:00.000-04:002005-07-12T23:11:00.000-04:00Suppose for a moment that the sorts of desires tha...Suppose for a moment that the sorts of desires that can be fulfilled in the matrix can only be done so by believing that the virtual world is in fact the 'real world.'<BR/><BR/>So becoming president for example is only fulfilling if you believe you have done it in the actual world by overcoming all obstacles and not because that destiny was programmed for you.<BR/><BR/>If this is the case, entering the matrix would mean volunteering for an illusion. (One of the classic thought experiments of philosophy of mind.)<BR/><BR/>Would you enter the matrix under this condition?Illusive Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05077172398731952774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121147205666246742005-07-12T01:46:00.000-04:002005-07-12T01:46:00.000-04:00I am not sure what you mean by "relativist" in thi...I am not sure what you mean by "relativist" in this context. (I am <I>not</I> a relativist about truth or ethics. I am, in a sense, a subjectivist about well-being, in that I hold to the desire-fulfilment theory of well-being.)<BR/><BR/>Perhaps some of our desires are "relative to others", e.g. the desire to be the best at X, or the richest, or whatever. But many of our desires are not. (If I'm hungry, I desire to be fed. It's nothing to do with other people.) Moreover, it is even possible to fulfill everybody's competative/"relative" desires, so long as they are competing on different axes. Perhaps Alan wants to be the best at X, and Bob wants to be good at Y, Carla at Z, and so forth. If everyone is good at something different, then there is no conflict.<BR/><BR/>(Of course, in practice there would always be <I>some</I> conflict. My point is simply that the situation is not necessarily so dire as you suggest. Universal improvement is indeed possible.)Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121146925780780832005-07-12T01:42:00.000-04:002005-07-12T01:42:00.000-04:00A side point on AI.If we all came from the inorgan...A side point on AI.<BR/><BR/>If we all came from the inorganic, slowly changed into organic and then self awareness and intelligence - surely this is no different than a process of AI.<BR/><BR/>Being organic is not a necessary part, but the fact that intelligence originally came from Inorganic matter means that logically, without a doubt AI is possible. <BR/><BR/>Same blogger as above.<BR/>XphilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121146434765908432005-07-12T01:33:00.000-04:002005-07-12T01:33:00.000-04:00Well its possible that we could inmprove on this w...Well its possible that we could inmprove on this world.. especially lifespan i think, however there are definite limits to what we can desire and come true. Much of what people desire in the physical world is directly relative to the position of others. Ie you president example. Human naturla competetiveness means that we may be happy with our 'X' while it the newest and best on our sttreet, until neighbour Joe gets the newer model 'X' and we are not happy anymore - not cos we don't like our x, but wbecause someone has a situatiuon better than ours. <BR/><BR/>You are a relativist right?<BR/><BR/>well desire and wellbeing surely is relative to others, so we cant all improve like you suggest. Maybe many could however...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1121019863857523462005-07-10T14:24:00.000-04:002005-07-10T14:24:00.000-04:00You aren't that old I think this sort of total eme...You aren't that old I think this sort of total emersion VR can pretty easily come within our lifetime.<BR/>GeniusNZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com