tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post110931117750181970..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Avoiding NihilismRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1141034182129052762006-02-27T04:56:00.000-05:002006-02-27T04:56:00.000-05:00Though I'm sure theologians have been expounding o...Though I'm sure theologians have been expounding on the concept of faith as ineffectively and for as long as philosophers have been having more rigorous thoughts... ;-)Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1141024851034987132006-02-27T02:20:00.000-05:002006-02-27T02:20:00.000-05:00This post is one-yr late so I might as well be spe...This post is one-yr late so I might as well be speaking down a well. First my position. I'm not acquainted with philosophy and will be making rather clumsy arguments ahead. Lets put aside the point of the objectivity/subjectivity of values for the moment. I would like to point out the difference between theory and practice. In theory, an individual may be a self-sufficient generator of values and meaning. One's life may be as full of purpose as one would have it be. A diversion- How meaningful is meaning that could be ordered ala carte off the menu. To a human mind, the relativity of values undermines "value" itself. Relative value is an obsolete currency. <BR/><BR/>In practise, how many of us are still instinctively embarking on a search for meaning, as though it were still somewhere out there. If hacking with an axe does not get you what you want, change your tool. We've been arguing about the existence of God since who knows when, alright, are we making progress? If not, is arguing more going to change things? This is not saying we should all dumb down, but sometimes talking and talking isn't always the smartest thing one can do. What I hope philosophers could sit down one day and expound on is the idea, the concept of faith. which I think would make an intriguing topic of discussion. The idea that faith lifts minds to a higher perspective. A method of reaching understanding besides critical reasoning? I'd like to hear from that person who reads one year old posts. cheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1109633054938801932005-02-28T18:24:00.000-05:002005-02-28T18:24:00.000-05:00The problem is that naturalists have failed to pro...The problem is that naturalists have failed to provide an account for morality that satisfies most people's sense of moral objectivity.<br /><br />It may sound like a sweeping claim, but no attempt to reduce morals to 'natural facts' have been successful - it is difficult to get passed the is/ought gap. What naturalist account can give us an "ought?" Only with conditionals - conditionals whose premises need to be reduced to natural facts to be anything more than preferences.<br /><br />However, a lack of moral objectivity may not necessarily lead to nihilism. We may prefer certain moral codes, like not killing each other, because we prefer the consequences of following the code to following something else. (Contract theories do something like this).<br /><br />There is, however, something lacking in this account. It may not exactly be moral subjectivity, but it certainly doesn't pass for objectivity. <br /><br />The problem, it seems to me, isn't that values are "merely" natural in the naturalist account, but that there are no <B>objective</B> values in the naturalist account.<br /><br />I agree with you that attempts to resolve the difficulty by appealing to God can be equally unsatisfying.<br /><br />But perhaps Aristotle's functionalist argument can work here. Perhaps humans were created to serve a particular function, and are 'good humans' to the degree they perform that function well. This is subtely different than the argument you refuted in your God-Giving Values post.<br /><br />Of course, the functionalist argument doesn't have any need for a God, but I think it can be used to explain how God's "bidding" can be relevant to human morality.<br /><br />(I don't, as I suspect you do not, buy the argument.)<br /><br />As to God giving life meaning: the existence of God is supposed to solve the PSR problem atheists face. I might be equating meaning with reason (as in PSR), but I suspect that what most people mean by asking "what is the meaning of life?" is "what is the reason for there being life at all?" If you're willing to accept a self-sufficient being, you might be interested in posulating the existence of one to solve any PSR/meaning problems you might be having.<br /><br />Frankly, I don't know what the hell a self-sufficient being would be like (God, I suppose), and I'd think it would be fair to ask what is the reason God exists. Perhaps life is Absurd even if God exists.Kupadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03913447432308149137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1109541491536419252005-02-27T16:58:00.000-05:002005-02-27T16:58:00.000-05:00Jennifer, I'm all for behaving morally - as you sa...Jennifer, I'm all for behaving morally - as you say, it tends to better one's own life as well as others'. But obviously one doesn't require religion to behave in such a way. So I'm still left wondering, of those theists who say that life has meaning only if God exists, <I>why do they think that</I>?Richard Y Chappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1109483253633561932005-02-27T00:47:00.000-05:002005-02-27T00:47:00.000-05:00To add to your argument I would like to give my ow...To add to your argument I would like to give my own thoughts. The atoms and the void alone might not seem valuable, but what about us? People are valuable, many things are valuable about a person. Why do we have to reduce everything? Seems like common sense and wisdom can explain appropriate behavior without the idea of God.<br /><br />As far as theology is concerened, I've read that they have accepted that laws and social contract ethics seems to make sense, but those idea don't obligate a person to do the right thing like a divine law would. But that doesn't change the fact that we can't know God's laws. What are his laws, and why does he have them? Even if you want to trust in the 10 commandments, there is much to be explained. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" seems like a flexable law considering that sometimes we have to kill in self-defense, etc.J. W. Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11067571798078607263noreply@blogger.com