tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post110707074712738427..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: EducationRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1129099168107343622005-10-12T02:39:00.000-04:002005-10-12T02:39:00.000-04:00Yeah, good point.Yeah, good point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1129098749522745382005-10-12T02:32:00.000-04:002005-10-12T02:32:00.000-04:00I'd suggest the following addition to the list of ...I'd suggest the following addition to the list of skills that we'd like to see taught. As citizens in a democracy, we need to be able to critically assess the social and political institutions around us. To this end, I think that some basic theories and skills from disciplines like political theory and media studies would be useful. There is always the problem that if the state is entrusted with education that has political implications, it will use the education as means of propaganda. However, given the importance of these skills to the running of a transparent and accountable democracy where elections amount to more than merely wooing sufficient numbers of people with populist rhetoric, I think we need to seek a tamper-proof way of teaching these skills rather than simply removing them from our list as 'too hard to implement'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107303592985979032005-02-01T19:19:00.000-05:002005-02-01T19:19:00.000-05:00I think facts have a role. The human mind works by...I think facts have a role. The human mind works by association, sometimes in the strangest ways, and the more raw material the brain has to work with teh better.<br /><br />Learning how to learn is very important, but there is a place for a wide general knowledge and some useful fact cramming as well. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A>tomVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107230604064558572005-01-31T23:03:00.000-05:002005-01-31T23:03:00.000-05:00Hmm I think that it is the ends that define the me...Hmm I think that it is the ends that define the means but your above classes make a decent starting point since they move us in the direction of the most generally accepted ends.<br /><br />we could teach those students the above skills in a short time preferably as young as posible.<br />imagine having this as your primary school corse<br />class 1 "mega memory" class 2 "touch typing" class 3 "finding answers via google" class 4 "basic logic" (which seems to have bit of "how to avoid being tricked by english) class 5 "spotting flaws (in statements or pictures or systems or whatever)" class 6 "basc windows usage" <br />45mins-1hr each about 200 and somthing classes each<br />maybe shorten the classes and add basic maths and writing for comunication.<br /><br />----<br />a problem with not using factoids however is that it is much harder to fairly mark test that is not asking if you know certain facts. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?geniusnz.blogspot.com" TITLE="spat012 at hotmail dot com">GeniusNZ</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107217781255565202005-01-31T19:29:00.000-05:002005-01-31T19:29:00.000-05:00Clark - fair enough, I admittedly don't know much ...Clark - fair enough, I admittedly don't know much about physics myself. Though I didn't mean to suggest that it should be taught <I>purely</I> conceptually, with no math at all. Just that it needs a bit more balance. My experience of high school physics class was basically just a case of applied mathematics - which is fine for me since I like maths anyway, but I didn't learn much <I>physics</I> from it. Certainly not as much as I've since learnt from various pop-science and philosophy of science introductions. I guess what I'm saying is that conceptual understanding should be the <I>goal</I> here, and teachers should employ as much math as is necessary or helpful to obtain that goal.<br /><br />I very much agree with your final paragraph.<br /><br />GeniusNZ - I listed some of the skills I had in mind in my introductory paragraph: "Logic, critical analysis, precis writing, computer skills, research skills, etc." But this list is very much up for debate if you have any specific suggestions? <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?pixnaps.blogspot.com%2F" TITLE="r dot chappell at gmail dot com">Richard</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107209089453130932005-01-31T17:04:00.000-05:002005-01-31T17:04:00.000-05:00skills are just a list of actions that perform a c...skills are just a list of actions that perform a certain function. Doing ANYTHING emparts you with general skills and understanding so it provides us with no guidance and worse yet no reason to prefer school to letting them wander the streets.<br /><br />What you must mean then are some sort of specific set of skills and understanding designed to help those peopel achieve specific objectives, somthing not easily available otherwise - the question is which ones?<br /><br />I think people intentionally leave the definition vague 9to the point of meaninglessness) because while no one can object to kids "learning" - many peopel wil object to them learning particular facts or ways of doing things. A "cop out" if you will. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?geniusnz.blogspot.com" TITLE="spat012 at hotmail dot com">GeniusNZ</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107195263609567932005-01-31T13:14:00.000-05:002005-01-31T13:14:00.000-05:00Regarding physics, it's almost impossible to under...Regarding physics, it's almost impossible to understand the concepts without the math. The math is very important. I've taught and tutored people in both the regular freshman physics classes as well as classes tailored towards humanity students. While the different mindsets obviously will bias the effects, the fact is that it is very hard to get a conceptual grasp of the topic without working through the math. One can do it with <I>less</I> math, of course. It's possible to teach classic physics using only algebra and not calculus, for example. But students really are robbed of a lot of the understanding.<br /><br />For some topics, such as AC circuits, I honestly think it very hard to teach at the best of times, but that the math is invaluable for helping generate comprehension.<br /><br />Once one gets to advanced physics, a little math really is necessary to have even a basic grasp of what is going on. In my experience all the many popular accounts of mondern physics one finds in the bookshelves ends up conveying very misleading ideas to readers. That includes books I'd consider extremely well written. The basic problem is once again math.<br /><br />I do agree with your basic thesis though. However I think that in pre-University science classes what ought be taught is a basic understanding of the scientific method along with the notion that science isn't purely about facts, but more about a way of knowing. That can be taught but is frequently neglected for the ease of route learning. (Which can also easily be tested) That's not to deny that some information needs taught. But I think understanding the basic scientific mindset is what is severely lacking in the world. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.libertypages.com%2Fclark" TITLE="clark at lextek dot com">Clark Goble</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107157335752869592005-01-31T02:42:00.000-05:002005-01-31T02:42:00.000-05:00My (probably) next post will be on the role of sch...My (probably) next post will be on the role of schools more generally. But since this one is specifically on 'education', it certainly is legitimate for you to ask what sort of things should be getting taught as part of this. I think the main post gives a basic outline of my thoughts here (i.e. imparting general skills and understanding). If anyone disagrees with those suggestions then I'd be curious to hear why in more detail... <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?pixnaps.blogspot.com%2F" TITLE="r dot chappell at gmail dot com">Richard</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1107156634235399332005-01-31T02:30:00.000-05:002005-01-31T02:30:00.000-05:00Im not sure you can say what a teacher should do u...Im not sure you can say what a teacher should do until you have defined an objective for teaching.<br />If you try to talk about what should be done before you know what we are trying to achieve your putting the cart before the horse.<br /><br />I think you get in trouble when you make very complex social goals part of an objective somthign simple like "preparing students to best bmeet the demands of employment seems like a good starting point to me. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?geniusnz.blogspot.com" TITLE="spat012 at hotmail dot com">GeniusNZ</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com