tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post108467618426665708..comments2023-10-29T10:32:36.914-04:00Comments on Philosophy, et cetera: Destiny & DeterminismRichard Y Chappellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16725218276285291235noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1103239246507453492004-12-16T18:20:00.000-05:002004-12-16T18:20:00.000-05:00Good point. I probably should have said: you lack...Good point. I probably should have said: <I>you lack control if your <B>decisions</B> lack causal power</I>. Here one needs to be careful in their understanding of 'decision' - I intend it to apply (to us) even in a deterministic universe. But of course it doesn't apply to electric currents. The key difference, as I see it, is that our brains engage in <I>computation</I> of decision-procedures (cognitive algorithms) which in turn guide our actions. I think that's enough to provide a (legitimate) sense of self-ownership and responsibility. It is a tricky question though, for sure.<br /><br />P.S. Again, I highly recommend Jason's post on <A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?http%3A%2F%2Fwww.positiveliberty.com%2F2004%2F10%2Fevil-robots.html">evil robots</A>, which I think is extremely helpful here. <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6642011.post-1103237601162853922004-12-16T17:53:00.000-05:002004-12-16T17:53:00.000-05:00[b] Sure, other stuff makes us happen. But then we...[b] Sure, other stuff makes us happen. But then we make things happen. Without us, they would not.[/b]<br /><br />Your distinction between destiny and determinism is a worthwhile one but I think in the process you overemphasise how comfortable we should be inside a hard determinist framework.<br /><br />A light switch is turned on.<br />Electrical current is sent to the light globe.<br />The light turns on.<br /><br />Did the electrical current cause the light to go on? In one sense it did. Is it responsible for the light going on? Perhaps in one sense that is correct too.<br /><br />But does the electrical current have any control over the situation? Over the light or over itself? If it wanted to, could it not turn on the light, (given the light switch is turned from off to on)? In this sense the current has no freedom, no causal agency, no control.<br /><br />[b] You lack control if your actions lack causal power, i.e. if no matter how you act, the future will not be affected[/b].<br />You lack control if you cannot determine your own actions, that is it is inevitable that you will follow one course of action. To support your thesis would grant control to just about anything. If a hammer breaks then it will affect the future of my carpentry, thus the hammer has a degree of control over itself and my future.<br /><br />What I think you are suggesting is related to personal identity, that say if the electricity was self-aware that it could be proud of itself for its actions. However if it kept watching the person flip the switch and then itself continually and inevitably travelling to the light globe, this feeling of ownership would vanish over time.<br /><br />The electricity can find no comfort in knowing that if it acted differently it would be responsible for changing the future. Because it is not the case that it in reality ‘doesn’t’ act differently, but that in reality it ‘can’t’ act differently.<br /> <br /><br /><A></A><A></A>Posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?http%3A%2F%2Fpixnaps.blogspot.com%2F2004%2F05%2Fdestiny-determinism.html" TITLE="illusive_mind at hotmail dot com">Illusive Mind</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com